Lecture Reports 2020 -2021
THE FORMBY STARFISH by Chris Kolonko - 10th May 2021
We had 40 Zoomers at this meeting, more than we would have if we had gone to the QMH, and our speaker, Chris Kolonko, was in Yorkshire! So Zooming does have some benefits.
Chris is part of CITiZAN, the Coastal and Intertidal Zone Archaeological Network. This is an award-winning community-led MOLA project, tackling threats to England’s fragile coastal archaeology, with funding from the National Lottery Heritage Fund, and support from Lloyds Register Foundation, Historic England and the National Trust.
Chris’s role is that of “Community Archaeologist North” and he has a special interest in WW2 defence sites. His lecture covered the bombing decoys for Bootle Docks, located at Formby. There were others at Little Crosby, Little Hilbre and Heswall. We thought all such decoys were generically called “Starfish” but not so - Starfish is just one example of a decoy deception.
Coastal erosion has destroyed some of the WW2 decoy sites. Chris feels we should record those remaining before they are lost! Erosion is happening at Formby, where the tobacco dump, once half a mile inland, is now exposed on the coast. CITiZAN initially concentrated on five special decoy sites, making written and photographic records.
Now my notes go a bit weird, it’s as if I know what I’m taking about and I’ve been sent to Room 40 to explain everything to Winston Churchill. (In the old days I used to say my notes were written under subdued light, I can’t say that with Zoom meetings!). However, a few clicks on Google helped me get things clear:
Urban Decoy Fires- (‘SF’ or ‘Starfish’ sites)
‘SF’ stands for Special Fires, but the name Starfish was also used for these sites. The sites were meant to look like a just-bombed site, with fires raging. Presumably enemy aircraft would think that this was the true bombing site and try to hit it as well. It was a sophisticated set up, with fires differing in appearance, intensity and duration. For example, fires may differ in their ignition and appearance by burning coal, oil or paraffin. The site itself had an infrastructure that included access roads, firebreak trenches and a means to control the fires remotely, usually from a building.
QL Sites- simulating the lights of towns and cities
These were first introduced in August 1941. They were mainly to deflect bombing away from civilian targets. The sites were placed in clusters to simulate the extent of an area that needed protection and varied from 5 to 30 acres in size. Some were specifically to protect ordnance factories which produced vital munitions for the war effort.
SF and QL sites were frequently found together. One type would be built first and then the second type added soon afterwards. English Heritage considers any substantial surviving remains to be of national importance. Such remains may include a night shelter or control building such as still exists at Formby.
One question after the talk one question concerned the inflatable lorries and tanks used to mislead the enemy. Had any survived? (It would appear not, the Tank Museum haven’t replied to my enquiry, but these tanks will have been made of neoprene and this degrades. Ed.)
Another concerned the routes flown by the Luftwaffe to get to the Mersey. Did they come across the Pennines from Holland or from France up the Irish Sea or across Wales?
It seems that both approaches were used, Chris suggesting that the undimmed lights of the Irish Free State would provide useful guidance over the Irish Sea. There was a general feeling that their geographic location would make the Liverpool Docks difficult to hide.
One way of combating these German raids, coming from the Irish Sea end of the Mersey, was the building of “Maunsell Forts” believed to be at Fort Crosby in the river. But we are straying a wee bit off industrial heritage here.
All these decoys were sophisticated and required a lot of manpower. They were also highly effective, ensuring that the enemy bombs fell away from military and civilian targets.
For further reading Chris recommended the book, “Fields of Deception” by Colin Dobinson, as probably the best on the subject. (£16 on Amazon)
And so the lecture ended, accompanied by the usual thumbs up or waving of hands from the audience.
We had 40 Zoomers at this meeting, more than we would have if we had gone to the QMH, and our speaker, Chris Kolonko, was in Yorkshire! So Zooming does have some benefits.
Chris is part of CITiZAN, the Coastal and Intertidal Zone Archaeological Network. This is an award-winning community-led MOLA project, tackling threats to England’s fragile coastal archaeology, with funding from the National Lottery Heritage Fund, and support from Lloyds Register Foundation, Historic England and the National Trust.
Chris’s role is that of “Community Archaeologist North” and he has a special interest in WW2 defence sites. His lecture covered the bombing decoys for Bootle Docks, located at Formby. There were others at Little Crosby, Little Hilbre and Heswall. We thought all such decoys were generically called “Starfish” but not so - Starfish is just one example of a decoy deception.
Coastal erosion has destroyed some of the WW2 decoy sites. Chris feels we should record those remaining before they are lost! Erosion is happening at Formby, where the tobacco dump, once half a mile inland, is now exposed on the coast. CITiZAN initially concentrated on five special decoy sites, making written and photographic records.
Now my notes go a bit weird, it’s as if I know what I’m taking about and I’ve been sent to Room 40 to explain everything to Winston Churchill. (In the old days I used to say my notes were written under subdued light, I can’t say that with Zoom meetings!). However, a few clicks on Google helped me get things clear:
Urban Decoy Fires- (‘SF’ or ‘Starfish’ sites)
‘SF’ stands for Special Fires, but the name Starfish was also used for these sites. The sites were meant to look like a just-bombed site, with fires raging. Presumably enemy aircraft would think that this was the true bombing site and try to hit it as well. It was a sophisticated set up, with fires differing in appearance, intensity and duration. For example, fires may differ in their ignition and appearance by burning coal, oil or paraffin. The site itself had an infrastructure that included access roads, firebreak trenches and a means to control the fires remotely, usually from a building.
QL Sites- simulating the lights of towns and cities
These were first introduced in August 1941. They were mainly to deflect bombing away from civilian targets. The sites were placed in clusters to simulate the extent of an area that needed protection and varied from 5 to 30 acres in size. Some were specifically to protect ordnance factories which produced vital munitions for the war effort.
SF and QL sites were frequently found together. One type would be built first and then the second type added soon afterwards. English Heritage considers any substantial surviving remains to be of national importance. Such remains may include a night shelter or control building such as still exists at Formby.
One question after the talk one question concerned the inflatable lorries and tanks used to mislead the enemy. Had any survived? (It would appear not, the Tank Museum haven’t replied to my enquiry, but these tanks will have been made of neoprene and this degrades. Ed.)
Another concerned the routes flown by the Luftwaffe to get to the Mersey. Did they come across the Pennines from Holland or from France up the Irish Sea or across Wales?
It seems that both approaches were used, Chris suggesting that the undimmed lights of the Irish Free State would provide useful guidance over the Irish Sea. There was a general feeling that their geographic location would make the Liverpool Docks difficult to hide.
One way of combating these German raids, coming from the Irish Sea end of the Mersey, was the building of “Maunsell Forts” believed to be at Fort Crosby in the river. But we are straying a wee bit off industrial heritage here.
All these decoys were sophisticated and required a lot of manpower. They were also highly effective, ensuring that the enemy bombs fell away from military and civilian targets.
For further reading Chris recommended the book, “Fields of Deception” by Colin Dobinson, as probably the best on the subject. (£16 on Amazon)
And so the lecture ended, accompanied by the usual thumbs up or waving of hands from the audience.
THE STORY OF THE MANCHESTER SHIP CANAL by Les Green & Bob Cannel - 12 April 2021
A formidable two hander, each helping the other, and often making jokes at each other’s expense, kept this lecture lively and interesting. It was a slick, well-honed presentation.
The Manchester Ship Canal is a magnificent feat of engineering, 36 miles long, linking Manchester to the Mersey Estuary and allowing direct trade to world markets for both import and export on ocean going ships. Our speakers, Les and Bob, are custodians of the restored and fully operational 1903 Daniel Adamson. Why did they build the canal? Because Mancunians wanted a direct link to the rest of the World.
Now my notes of the lecture have turned into disjointed bullet points, I hope this is acceptable to you dear reader ….
Bob & Les said that if the “Danny” emitted this amount of smoke these days, a visit from the Environment Agency would follow, with a serious “talking to” about emissions. As we all know, coal is going like “sugar”, and is now a “bad thing”. Ed.
The Manchester docks actually ended in Salford.
In the post-talk Q&A Andrew Hodgson asked how the canal pays for itself. The answer….. “turnover £43m in 2019, the lower reaches of the canal has good trade but the upper reaches need regular dredging”.
We thanked our speakers with the thumbs up or hands clapping signs we are getting accustomed to in Zoom.
And finally, one to think about from the Editor………Les came out with the controversial comment, “The Liverpool to Manchester Railway was the stimulus for the MSC”. Now there’s a subject for debate. Who’d like to follow that one up?
MEMBERS’ NIGHT - 8th February 2021
The Zoom meeting went well, with around 27 participants. Anna welcomed us and made the announcement on the AIA conference and then we started. First up was …………. 3
Maurice Handley : “The Last coal mine in St Helens.” We had a quick overview of how open cast mining worked and we were reminded of the Long Weekend when in the minibus we flew past the open cast site at Fron y Ffos, Merthyr Tydfil, from which the coal went for steam engines and the local power station. With no demand for power station coal, regrettably it is closing and being turned into a country park. It’s hard to believe but at one time the NCB had an “Opencast Executive”. it was based at the American sounding Coalville, which “surprise, surprise” was a coal mining village set up by George and Robert Stephenson. You can learn so much when you are an MIHS member! A crane called a dragline may be used to remove the bulk of the over burden (keep up if you can with these terms) to get to the coal seam. These draglines are so large they don’t have wheels, they have giant “feet” (see below). Once the overburden is removed, smaller and more delicate excavators remove the coal. And now Maurice moved back to St Helens, and, in particular, to an area once known by Pilkingtons as “The Timberyard”. Hard to believe that as late as the 1990’s the area was an open cast mine, now it’s all gone and it is “an estate”. Interestingly open cast workings sometimes show traces of earlier mining and in this case some from the 16th century were revealed! Fascinating. Then we saw an open cast site near Carr Mill Dam that was worked during WW2. It was reworked in 2001-2002 to supply Fidler’s Ferry Power Station. The site is green fields now but can be seen from Garswood Old Road, accessible through a skew bridge under the railway at Carr Mill. (We were all wondering if Maurice would get a skew bridge into the talk). The last underground coal mine in the South West Lancashire Coalfield district was Parkside, which closed in 1993. WORKING DRAGLINE: These were advanced by an eccentric mechanism which jacked the whole thing forward or backward in short steps. The ‘feet’ can be seen in my Meccano model. In closing Maurice told us that Crock Hey, the last coal mine in St Helens, is now arable fields. The only local place where typical mine winding gear can be seen is at Astley near Leigh. Thanks Maurice
Helen and Steve Lyus: “Bygone Railways”. We started with the railways of Port Sunlight, which included Bromborough Pool (see map on next page), and then a film of a Lever Brothers’ works outing from 1910. Then we looked at the story of moving a large Ferranti transformer, weighing 123 tons, via railway and Pickfords low loader. It was very interesting and nostalgic
Roy Forshaw: Revisiting the docks and quays of the River Dee. Our tour started at Chester and proceeded along the Wirral coast. Many of the old ports and quays on the Dee are now inland! If you find Blacon, Saughall and Shotwick on a map, they were all at one time on the coast! Even as early as Roman times the port of Chester showed evidence of silting up. 4 PICTURE FROM The Railways of Port Sunlight and Bromborough Port by M D Lister (Oakwood Press) 1980. The map gives an idea of the extensive railway that existed in this small area at one time. Roy told us that by Norman times the “Water Tower” had been built out to extend the castle to the river side. By Tudor times the harbour was being pushed further downstream, with animals grazing at what had been the former “port” by 1574. By 1745 houses had been built on what had been a “basin”. All very interesting. Roy pointed out where, by 1817, the cheese boats were transhipped at the basin, it was becoming a channel rather than a river. And so we start to move away from Chester, by 1357 slate was being unloaded at Shotwick and millstones at Burton. By the 17th C the haven only had room for little barques. In 1732 the improvements enabled 100-ton coal ships from Mostyn, Flint and Bagilt to unload, along with cheese and lead. The Dee Reclamation Company made the “Chester Cut”, carrying out the work between 1754 and 1826. Roy had ample evidence to show that the statement in Wikipedia that Dutch engineers canalised the Dee is wrong. Roy showed us cliffs at Blacon that at one time were river cliffs. Shotwick is well worth a visit. The castle guarded the ford to Wales (yes hard to believe isn’t it?) and the shipping to and from Chester. Shotwick village was a fishing port. MAP FROM FOOTPATHS OF WIRRAL (1945). Hard to believe Shotwick was a fishing village, it is now two miles from the sea. Courtesy W G Adams 5 At Burton Point we saw the site of the quarry and trackway at a promontory. Stone from here was taken to build Flint Castle on the opposite side of river. The local stone was quarried from the hillfort (now 80% gone). Roy showed his expertise with some interesting map overlays. Then to Neston Colliery and Denhall Quay but even when they were built the river was silting up. At one time Neston was used to tranship goods into smaller ships for Chester, Parkgate was mainly an anchorage but also where the packets went from. I’ve condensed Roy’s notes considerably and they are well worth further exposition. Someone should write a book.
Malcolm Verity: “A Railway Accident” which happened on 30th April 1851. The location was Sutton Tunnel, about a mile long, just to the NE of Frodsham. See map below. MAPS taken from 1:25000 Pathfinder and Second Series Runcorn and Widnes 739 and Ellesmere Port (East) SJ47/57 Eric Pollard Collection (R S Jones) Frodsham bottom left, Runcorn top left. This line was opened in December 1850.
On this April day the Chester races were a popular venue for people from Manchester, taking advantage of the new direct line between Manchester Victoria and Chester General. (Previously passengers had to travel via Crewe). It is thought that 4000 people turned up for the trains to the races and they were terribly overloaded. One had fifty carriages! There were long delays, one outward train was 2½ hours late. As they say these days in railway accident jargon, “The sixes all came up together”. One train had 900 passengers on it. The carriages were made of wood, usually just four wheeled types. The locos of the day couldn’t cope with very heavy trains. The operations department just attached extra carriages, not questioning whether the locomotive could cope.
It was on the returning trains from Chester that the accident occurred. 6 Southern Portal of Sutton Tunnel. Picture from internet, unknown source. Rain and sometimes sleet had caused slipping, the trains were struggling to move even on the flat Frodsham viaduct, with a fireman and platelayer sanding the rails, it was worse on the 1 in 264 slope to the tunnel. The locomotives were of a 2-2-2 configuration. This meant they had just two driving wheels. Aware of the situation, the train behind was asked to push. (Yes, I know what you’re thinking, “this is all going to end in tears”). The wheel slip on reaching the tunnel was even worse because of the damp and dripping conditions. The long train of overloaded carriages, “ground to a halt” in the tunnel. Then another train, travelling at between 15 and 20 mph, ran into the tunnel and into the stationary trains.
There were five immediate deaths but many injuries, there were passengers from three trains. There was fearful confusion. Frodsham Station became, in more modern parlance, a casualty clearing station. Later an inquest was held at Preston Brook. There were faults in all departments but no single individual attribution. The Government Inspector criticised the Loco Superintendent, the drivers, the guards, the secretary of the company and the station master. He laid into the railway management for providing inadequate safety procedures and told them an “electric telegraph” should be installed, there should be more rolling stock for these occasions, better trained personnel, and a review of the five-minute gap between trains, etc. etc. Anna thanked everyone for a first-class evening with lots of variety and interest.
A formidable two hander, each helping the other, and often making jokes at each other’s expense, kept this lecture lively and interesting. It was a slick, well-honed presentation.
The Manchester Ship Canal is a magnificent feat of engineering, 36 miles long, linking Manchester to the Mersey Estuary and allowing direct trade to world markets for both import and export on ocean going ships. Our speakers, Les and Bob, are custodians of the restored and fully operational 1903 Daniel Adamson. Why did they build the canal? Because Mancunians wanted a direct link to the rest of the World.
Now my notes of the lecture have turned into disjointed bullet points, I hope this is acceptable to you dear reader ….
- The Manchester Ship Canal Company at one time had the biggest private railway in the country. They also owned up to 28 tugs. The Daniel Adamson is the last link with those times. Here is a rather nice picture of the tug Cadishead (1917) with Transporter Bridge in background. Picture from Internet.
Bob & Les said that if the “Danny” emitted this amount of smoke these days, a visit from the Environment Agency would follow, with a serious “talking to” about emissions. As we all know, coal is going like “sugar”, and is now a “bad thing”. Ed.
The Manchester docks actually ended in Salford.
- Once the canal was built, other trades grew up around the canal, such as a steelworks at Irlam. Manchester. The canal would make closer links with the 3000 mills in the Manchester area.
- “Punative taxes and dues were imposed by Liverpool Merchants” (Discuss…)
- Daniel Adamson, a name we know from the restored ship, “led the charge” to build the canal as it is today. He worked under Timothy Hackworth in the North East! He died in 1890 – before the canal was finished.
- Opposition from Liverpool shippers and docks of course. Acts failed in 1883 and 1884 to prevent them building the canal. Lverpool claimed it “would silt the Mersey”.
- To build the lock gates at Eastham, (one set of locks for a large ship, and one for smaller ones, like tugs) needed 1000 tons of Guyana greenheart timber, today it is virtually unobtainable in these quantities.
- Dutch workers were brought in, because of their water engineering expertise, to build fascines on the banks (which helped prevent collapse of the banks of the canal).
- A German steam dredger was brought in to keep the canal from silting up.
- It took just six years to build the canal, a truly amazing feat.
- As early as 1922 the Stanlow oil docks opened.
- In 1961 the film “A Taste of Honey” was filmed in Salford Docks.
- In 1979 parts of the canal were used in the making of the film “Yanks” and the “Effluent Services Boat” was mocked up as a naval ship.
- In the 1980’s the increasing size of ships and the use of containerization, meant the canal became too small. The biggest ship to ever use it was the “Carchester”, one of Cargills ships. It was nearly the length of the biggest lock. (Carchester is part of the word Cargill, seed crushers and Manchester!).
- Smaller ships connected with the petrochemical industry, liquefied gas, grain, and those carrying soda ash still penetrate the canal, but not to Salford. Cement comes in from Ireland every ten days. Wine barges from Seaforth go as far as Irlam.
- The speakers regretted that there were no ships moored in Salford but the area has been re-invented with Media City, a theatre, bars and “waterside living”.
- The water in the canal is so much cleaner compared with the 1970’s, no effluent goes in the canal, mainly because of legislation but also there are no longer industries making the effluent.
In the post-talk Q&A Andrew Hodgson asked how the canal pays for itself. The answer….. “turnover £43m in 2019, the lower reaches of the canal has good trade but the upper reaches need regular dredging”.
We thanked our speakers with the thumbs up or hands clapping signs we are getting accustomed to in Zoom.
And finally, one to think about from the Editor………Les came out with the controversial comment, “The Liverpool to Manchester Railway was the stimulus for the MSC”. Now there’s a subject for debate. Who’d like to follow that one up?
MEMBERS’ NIGHT - 8th February 2021
The Zoom meeting went well, with around 27 participants. Anna welcomed us and made the announcement on the AIA conference and then we started. First up was …………. 3
Maurice Handley : “The Last coal mine in St Helens.” We had a quick overview of how open cast mining worked and we were reminded of the Long Weekend when in the minibus we flew past the open cast site at Fron y Ffos, Merthyr Tydfil, from which the coal went for steam engines and the local power station. With no demand for power station coal, regrettably it is closing and being turned into a country park. It’s hard to believe but at one time the NCB had an “Opencast Executive”. it was based at the American sounding Coalville, which “surprise, surprise” was a coal mining village set up by George and Robert Stephenson. You can learn so much when you are an MIHS member! A crane called a dragline may be used to remove the bulk of the over burden (keep up if you can with these terms) to get to the coal seam. These draglines are so large they don’t have wheels, they have giant “feet” (see below). Once the overburden is removed, smaller and more delicate excavators remove the coal. And now Maurice moved back to St Helens, and, in particular, to an area once known by Pilkingtons as “The Timberyard”. Hard to believe that as late as the 1990’s the area was an open cast mine, now it’s all gone and it is “an estate”. Interestingly open cast workings sometimes show traces of earlier mining and in this case some from the 16th century were revealed! Fascinating. Then we saw an open cast site near Carr Mill Dam that was worked during WW2. It was reworked in 2001-2002 to supply Fidler’s Ferry Power Station. The site is green fields now but can be seen from Garswood Old Road, accessible through a skew bridge under the railway at Carr Mill. (We were all wondering if Maurice would get a skew bridge into the talk). The last underground coal mine in the South West Lancashire Coalfield district was Parkside, which closed in 1993. WORKING DRAGLINE: These were advanced by an eccentric mechanism which jacked the whole thing forward or backward in short steps. The ‘feet’ can be seen in my Meccano model. In closing Maurice told us that Crock Hey, the last coal mine in St Helens, is now arable fields. The only local place where typical mine winding gear can be seen is at Astley near Leigh. Thanks Maurice
Helen and Steve Lyus: “Bygone Railways”. We started with the railways of Port Sunlight, which included Bromborough Pool (see map on next page), and then a film of a Lever Brothers’ works outing from 1910. Then we looked at the story of moving a large Ferranti transformer, weighing 123 tons, via railway and Pickfords low loader. It was very interesting and nostalgic
Roy Forshaw: Revisiting the docks and quays of the River Dee. Our tour started at Chester and proceeded along the Wirral coast. Many of the old ports and quays on the Dee are now inland! If you find Blacon, Saughall and Shotwick on a map, they were all at one time on the coast! Even as early as Roman times the port of Chester showed evidence of silting up. 4 PICTURE FROM The Railways of Port Sunlight and Bromborough Port by M D Lister (Oakwood Press) 1980. The map gives an idea of the extensive railway that existed in this small area at one time. Roy told us that by Norman times the “Water Tower” had been built out to extend the castle to the river side. By Tudor times the harbour was being pushed further downstream, with animals grazing at what had been the former “port” by 1574. By 1745 houses had been built on what had been a “basin”. All very interesting. Roy pointed out where, by 1817, the cheese boats were transhipped at the basin, it was becoming a channel rather than a river. And so we start to move away from Chester, by 1357 slate was being unloaded at Shotwick and millstones at Burton. By the 17th C the haven only had room for little barques. In 1732 the improvements enabled 100-ton coal ships from Mostyn, Flint and Bagilt to unload, along with cheese and lead. The Dee Reclamation Company made the “Chester Cut”, carrying out the work between 1754 and 1826. Roy had ample evidence to show that the statement in Wikipedia that Dutch engineers canalised the Dee is wrong. Roy showed us cliffs at Blacon that at one time were river cliffs. Shotwick is well worth a visit. The castle guarded the ford to Wales (yes hard to believe isn’t it?) and the shipping to and from Chester. Shotwick village was a fishing port. MAP FROM FOOTPATHS OF WIRRAL (1945). Hard to believe Shotwick was a fishing village, it is now two miles from the sea. Courtesy W G Adams 5 At Burton Point we saw the site of the quarry and trackway at a promontory. Stone from here was taken to build Flint Castle on the opposite side of river. The local stone was quarried from the hillfort (now 80% gone). Roy showed his expertise with some interesting map overlays. Then to Neston Colliery and Denhall Quay but even when they were built the river was silting up. At one time Neston was used to tranship goods into smaller ships for Chester, Parkgate was mainly an anchorage but also where the packets went from. I’ve condensed Roy’s notes considerably and they are well worth further exposition. Someone should write a book.
Malcolm Verity: “A Railway Accident” which happened on 30th April 1851. The location was Sutton Tunnel, about a mile long, just to the NE of Frodsham. See map below. MAPS taken from 1:25000 Pathfinder and Second Series Runcorn and Widnes 739 and Ellesmere Port (East) SJ47/57 Eric Pollard Collection (R S Jones) Frodsham bottom left, Runcorn top left. This line was opened in December 1850.
On this April day the Chester races were a popular venue for people from Manchester, taking advantage of the new direct line between Manchester Victoria and Chester General. (Previously passengers had to travel via Crewe). It is thought that 4000 people turned up for the trains to the races and they were terribly overloaded. One had fifty carriages! There were long delays, one outward train was 2½ hours late. As they say these days in railway accident jargon, “The sixes all came up together”. One train had 900 passengers on it. The carriages were made of wood, usually just four wheeled types. The locos of the day couldn’t cope with very heavy trains. The operations department just attached extra carriages, not questioning whether the locomotive could cope.
It was on the returning trains from Chester that the accident occurred. 6 Southern Portal of Sutton Tunnel. Picture from internet, unknown source. Rain and sometimes sleet had caused slipping, the trains were struggling to move even on the flat Frodsham viaduct, with a fireman and platelayer sanding the rails, it was worse on the 1 in 264 slope to the tunnel. The locomotives were of a 2-2-2 configuration. This meant they had just two driving wheels. Aware of the situation, the train behind was asked to push. (Yes, I know what you’re thinking, “this is all going to end in tears”). The wheel slip on reaching the tunnel was even worse because of the damp and dripping conditions. The long train of overloaded carriages, “ground to a halt” in the tunnel. Then another train, travelling at between 15 and 20 mph, ran into the tunnel and into the stationary trains.
There were five immediate deaths but many injuries, there were passengers from three trains. There was fearful confusion. Frodsham Station became, in more modern parlance, a casualty clearing station. Later an inquest was held at Preston Brook. There were faults in all departments but no single individual attribution. The Government Inspector criticised the Loco Superintendent, the drivers, the guards, the secretary of the company and the station master. He laid into the railway management for providing inadequate safety procedures and told them an “electric telegraph” should be installed, there should be more rolling stock for these occasions, better trained personnel, and a review of the five-minute gap between trains, etc. etc. Anna thanked everyone for a first-class evening with lots of variety and interest.
SMALLER PORTS & QUAYS ON THE DEE & MERSEY - A BATTLE OF SHIFTING SANDS by Roy Forshaw - Monday 9th November 2020
We had over 29 Zoomers watching Roy’s fully illustrated talk. . Roy started at the “Chester” end of the River Dee, on the Wirral side at Shotwick Port. At one time it was quite important, notable passengers included Henry lll, who sailed for Ireland and Edward 1 who used the port to “leave for Wales” in 1278. We learned that in 1357 slate was being unloaded. Little remains on the surface today.
We then moved on five hundred years where Roy spoke of the “River Dee Land Company”, he explained they were a bit “dodgy” (I missed Roy’s exact word) and not dissimilar to developers today! This company built a TRAINING WALL, and as silting occurred, it progressed up the river further and further, trying to tame the River Dee. Without success. . TRAINING WALL Many sections of this wall remain to this day. Then to Burton Point where we saw images of the quay wall, now distant from the water in a field but you could clearly see the effects of wave erosion. The site once formed a promontory on the original course of the River Dee. In the early 18th century, a new training wall was constructed on the Welsh side which made the Wirral side silt up even faster. Incidentally the quarries at Burton Point are famous for the stone that was taken from here across to Flint Castle by Edward 1, in AD 1277 - the Welsh not being willing to cooperate in selling stone for the castle. It was comparatively easy to float the quarried stone over on a high tide, the castle is nearly directly opposite. Next along was Denhall Quay which still survives today, but not much water, sand deposition was a real problem here.
Quickly past NESTON, where a new “Key” was built in 1569. We learned that by 1600 vessels over 20 tons GRT were forced aground. NESTON KEY in C16 was called the New Key. On the map dated about 1810, it has become Old Quay and seems to be inland, so another example of the sand deposition. Then on to HESWALL QUAY at the bottom of the aptly named “Riverbank Road” now all silted up. Then to DAWPOOL where in places, and subject to the tides, the quayside is visible. Dawpool had an anchorage which was called Dawpool Deep. The internet says that Jonathan Swift passed through here on his way to and from Dublin, and at one time it had been the main anchorage of the estuary, before yielding to Denhall and Burton.
Roy’s talk eventually got us round to TOXTETH on the Mersey where we learned about fish traps (1769), Before the Manchester Ship Canal was built, the Mersey was treacherous with quickly changing sandbanks and rivers. Roy emphasised the problem with small ports, you had a gamble when a fierce storm might wash the quay away or just silt it up.
Next up was DUNGEON POINT near the end of the runway at Speke Airport. These triangular concrete blocks are placed to prevent the erosion of this promontory at Dungeon Point. They are not, as some locals think, WW2 devices to stop a German invasion, but that may have been relocated from somewhere else, (such as semi portable devices to place on a runway to prevent German aircraft landing? Ed). Roy’s map showed us the location of a short tramway, possibly to take night soil away! At Dungeon there was also a salt works (1693 to c1840), salt arriving from the other side of the river near Frodsham. Roy has visited the site periodically and observed that the River Mersey has over time deposited and then sometimes removed significant quantities of silt and exposed further structures.
More has been learnt about Dungeon Salt Works but its surroundings have changed dramatically since the 1990’s and will be a surprise to see the changes that some of the original diggers will see now: some of whom are still in MIHS ! Roy then mentioned the various salt works that had existed in the area, the one at Dungeon, one at Frodsham, one at Hilbre and the one in Liverpool, on the site of, or adjacent to, Salthouse Dock. This later moved to GARSTON when the locals got fed up with the clouds of black smoke from the salt process.
HALE CLIFF WHARF, this was really Roy’s specialist subject for the evening, having been studying this area for 30 years. The wharf predates the saltworks and its demise was similar to that of many small quays on the Dee and Mersey that we’d looked at. We learned that salt was exported as far as Carlisle, something only discovered when paperwork over a claim came to light. The most interesting thing I learned was that salt was being taken to Cornwall for the fishing trade, the ships returning to Herculaneum with china clay for the pottery. Of course, Liverpool was once one of these small ports but, after they built the New Dock business just flourished as we know, and the merchants got it right! After the talk Roy answered some questions and we quietly logged off with a cheerful goodbye and a wave if we were muted.
RECENT EXCAVATIONS AT PRINCES DOCK - CAPSTANS, WINCHES & WALLS by Mark Adams - Monday 12th October 2020
Anna welcomed the 21 or so Zoomers and got things under way, “bang on time” Then Mark started his full colour presentation, complete with roving red pointer and pen! It was great. He has been working at Princes Dock for several months, even through Covid. It’s very airy down on the dock! He has held a watching brief, principally for the Industrial Archaeology. So he wasn’t expecting Roman tesserae, post holes for grub huts, crannogs or burial mounds.
The site is for the new IOM ferry berth, which will be on the riverside of Princes Dock. 2 We saw pictures of some old dock walls, dock gates and some dock machinery. Many parts had been built over or the dock filled in, or enlarged. We saw a rare War Office map of 1789, discovered at National Records Office, Kew. At that time we were at war with the French. The map was stamped “B of O” (or was it B.O?). Board of Ordnance. I think it eventually became the Ordnance Survey that we know and love so much. I’m beginning to go off piste here…. Sorry….. Mark had also found some interesting old maps on a website called “Urban Chemist”. He even wondered if someone in MIHS was the “Urban Chemist”! It’s great for old pictures too. Try it. You can spend hours on it!
Princes Dock and area had so many changes of design over time. At one time the shore base “HMS Eaglet” was located right over where he was working. It’s all been demolished now, but we were able to follow the sequence with the many maps that Mark had found. Superb aerial pic of the Armstrong hydraulic winch, capstan and drum for and the Elswick hydraulic capstan. The old lock gates were still In position for the half tide entrance (small lock) made out of that special indestructible wood, greenheart. The meeting closed with questions from listeners. It was great to have Adrian Jarvis making some observations.
We had over 29 Zoomers watching Roy’s fully illustrated talk. . Roy started at the “Chester” end of the River Dee, on the Wirral side at Shotwick Port. At one time it was quite important, notable passengers included Henry lll, who sailed for Ireland and Edward 1 who used the port to “leave for Wales” in 1278. We learned that in 1357 slate was being unloaded. Little remains on the surface today.
We then moved on five hundred years where Roy spoke of the “River Dee Land Company”, he explained they were a bit “dodgy” (I missed Roy’s exact word) and not dissimilar to developers today! This company built a TRAINING WALL, and as silting occurred, it progressed up the river further and further, trying to tame the River Dee. Without success. . TRAINING WALL Many sections of this wall remain to this day. Then to Burton Point where we saw images of the quay wall, now distant from the water in a field but you could clearly see the effects of wave erosion. The site once formed a promontory on the original course of the River Dee. In the early 18th century, a new training wall was constructed on the Welsh side which made the Wirral side silt up even faster. Incidentally the quarries at Burton Point are famous for the stone that was taken from here across to Flint Castle by Edward 1, in AD 1277 - the Welsh not being willing to cooperate in selling stone for the castle. It was comparatively easy to float the quarried stone over on a high tide, the castle is nearly directly opposite. Next along was Denhall Quay which still survives today, but not much water, sand deposition was a real problem here.
Quickly past NESTON, where a new “Key” was built in 1569. We learned that by 1600 vessels over 20 tons GRT were forced aground. NESTON KEY in C16 was called the New Key. On the map dated about 1810, it has become Old Quay and seems to be inland, so another example of the sand deposition. Then on to HESWALL QUAY at the bottom of the aptly named “Riverbank Road” now all silted up. Then to DAWPOOL where in places, and subject to the tides, the quayside is visible. Dawpool had an anchorage which was called Dawpool Deep. The internet says that Jonathan Swift passed through here on his way to and from Dublin, and at one time it had been the main anchorage of the estuary, before yielding to Denhall and Burton.
Roy’s talk eventually got us round to TOXTETH on the Mersey where we learned about fish traps (1769), Before the Manchester Ship Canal was built, the Mersey was treacherous with quickly changing sandbanks and rivers. Roy emphasised the problem with small ports, you had a gamble when a fierce storm might wash the quay away or just silt it up.
Next up was DUNGEON POINT near the end of the runway at Speke Airport. These triangular concrete blocks are placed to prevent the erosion of this promontory at Dungeon Point. They are not, as some locals think, WW2 devices to stop a German invasion, but that may have been relocated from somewhere else, (such as semi portable devices to place on a runway to prevent German aircraft landing? Ed). Roy’s map showed us the location of a short tramway, possibly to take night soil away! At Dungeon there was also a salt works (1693 to c1840), salt arriving from the other side of the river near Frodsham. Roy has visited the site periodically and observed that the River Mersey has over time deposited and then sometimes removed significant quantities of silt and exposed further structures.
More has been learnt about Dungeon Salt Works but its surroundings have changed dramatically since the 1990’s and will be a surprise to see the changes that some of the original diggers will see now: some of whom are still in MIHS ! Roy then mentioned the various salt works that had existed in the area, the one at Dungeon, one at Frodsham, one at Hilbre and the one in Liverpool, on the site of, or adjacent to, Salthouse Dock. This later moved to GARSTON when the locals got fed up with the clouds of black smoke from the salt process.
HALE CLIFF WHARF, this was really Roy’s specialist subject for the evening, having been studying this area for 30 years. The wharf predates the saltworks and its demise was similar to that of many small quays on the Dee and Mersey that we’d looked at. We learned that salt was exported as far as Carlisle, something only discovered when paperwork over a claim came to light. The most interesting thing I learned was that salt was being taken to Cornwall for the fishing trade, the ships returning to Herculaneum with china clay for the pottery. Of course, Liverpool was once one of these small ports but, after they built the New Dock business just flourished as we know, and the merchants got it right! After the talk Roy answered some questions and we quietly logged off with a cheerful goodbye and a wave if we were muted.
RECENT EXCAVATIONS AT PRINCES DOCK - CAPSTANS, WINCHES & WALLS by Mark Adams - Monday 12th October 2020
Anna welcomed the 21 or so Zoomers and got things under way, “bang on time” Then Mark started his full colour presentation, complete with roving red pointer and pen! It was great. He has been working at Princes Dock for several months, even through Covid. It’s very airy down on the dock! He has held a watching brief, principally for the Industrial Archaeology. So he wasn’t expecting Roman tesserae, post holes for grub huts, crannogs or burial mounds.
The site is for the new IOM ferry berth, which will be on the riverside of Princes Dock. 2 We saw pictures of some old dock walls, dock gates and some dock machinery. Many parts had been built over or the dock filled in, or enlarged. We saw a rare War Office map of 1789, discovered at National Records Office, Kew. At that time we were at war with the French. The map was stamped “B of O” (or was it B.O?). Board of Ordnance. I think it eventually became the Ordnance Survey that we know and love so much. I’m beginning to go off piste here…. Sorry….. Mark had also found some interesting old maps on a website called “Urban Chemist”. He even wondered if someone in MIHS was the “Urban Chemist”! It’s great for old pictures too. Try it. You can spend hours on it!
Princes Dock and area had so many changes of design over time. At one time the shore base “HMS Eaglet” was located right over where he was working. It’s all been demolished now, but we were able to follow the sequence with the many maps that Mark had found. Superb aerial pic of the Armstrong hydraulic winch, capstan and drum for and the Elswick hydraulic capstan. The old lock gates were still In position for the half tide entrance (small lock) made out of that special indestructible wood, greenheart. The meeting closed with questions from listeners. It was great to have Adrian Jarvis making some observations.
OUR FIRST ZOOM MEETING - 14th September 2020
FIREWATCHERS'S POSTS, THE SANKEY CANAL 7 INDUSTRIAL ST HELENS by Maruice Handley
This was a first for MIHS, a ZOOM presentation by our own member, Maurice Handley, to which 21 members tuned in. It took a bit of time to get all the settings right, but at 7.05 Anna formally welcomed us to this first in the society’s history.
The initial theme was WW2 firewatchers’ posts, still standing 75 years after the war. Maurice then explored the environs of one beside the Sankey Canal at St Helens, mixing early maps and photos of the area with present-day images. This “then and now” approach is always interesting and in the case of St Helens illustrated how over 100 years industries have gone and been replaced, only for the replacements to be supplanted in their turn.
In other images we saw stone blocks on the Sankey Canal edging, originally used on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. In 1830 stone blocks were the “industry standard” for waggonways and tramways. They didn’t suit the faster speeds and heavier dynamic loads and were replaced with wooden sleepers, with the stone blocks sold off by the hundred, possibly thousand, in this case to a rival of the railway- a canal!
Most of those who tried to join the meeting succeeded. The most important factor appeared to be a strong broadband signal. Of course, having several broadband devices on at the same time weakens the signal.
FIREWATCHERS'S POSTS, THE SANKEY CANAL 7 INDUSTRIAL ST HELENS by Maruice Handley
This was a first for MIHS, a ZOOM presentation by our own member, Maurice Handley, to which 21 members tuned in. It took a bit of time to get all the settings right, but at 7.05 Anna formally welcomed us to this first in the society’s history.
The initial theme was WW2 firewatchers’ posts, still standing 75 years after the war. Maurice then explored the environs of one beside the Sankey Canal at St Helens, mixing early maps and photos of the area with present-day images. This “then and now” approach is always interesting and in the case of St Helens illustrated how over 100 years industries have gone and been replaced, only for the replacements to be supplanted in their turn.
In other images we saw stone blocks on the Sankey Canal edging, originally used on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. In 1830 stone blocks were the “industry standard” for waggonways and tramways. They didn’t suit the faster speeds and heavier dynamic loads and were replaced with wooden sleepers, with the stone blocks sold off by the hundred, possibly thousand, in this case to a rival of the railway- a canal!
Most of those who tried to join the meeting succeeded. The most important factor appeared to be a strong broadband signal. Of course, having several broadband devices on at the same time weakens the signal.
